Thunder: a mindless KV-1S copy?
Upload: June 1, 2020 - Last update: July 16, 2020
Before the battle pass was even announced by WarGaming, a lot of people already knew that an IS-like tank would be part of it thanks to data mining efforts. This usually doesn’t spark the interest of the majority of the active community, because IS tanks are often considered bland or boring. The fact that the Thunder was only a part of a huge amount of free and payed stuff didn’t get rid of that sentiment. While the cool camouflage on the tank with the lights effects is praised, copying a tech tree tank and changing some stuff isn’t considered very creative (and in my humble opinion, rightfully so).
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Another complaint that was made is that it’s just a flat out better KV-1S, thus pay to win. The question is: is it really? I’ll try to find an answer to this question for people that unlocked the Thunder and want to sell it for 500 gold, or those who reached level 35 on the free pass and don’t know if it’s worth 5 dollars or euros to unlock the payed pass – disregarding the other stuff you get from it for a moment.
The statistics: big boom, no sustained DPM
Everyone who’s has ever driven the KV-1S knows that it doesn’t have great DPM, on the contrary. The Thunder is the exact same, the DPM differs with the shocking amount of 1 for some reason, but in practice this doesn’t make any difference. Without any help the Thunder will have more or less 20 seconds reload for 400 DPM, almost as slow as the KV-2 (fully kitted out so not really a fair comparison) which has a bigger derp, resulting in 3 rounds a minute and around 1200 DPM. I’ll come back to this topic later on, but it’s obvious that the Thunder, just like the KV-1S really needs the rammer to say the least. What else does it offer? A derpy 122 Russian gun, with typical bad aimtime and dispersion. A replica of the KV-1S you said? It really looks like it, doesn’t it? But wait, there’s more. The KV-1S is often referred to as KV-1Sports(car) because it is very mobile for a heavy, and pretty dissappointing on the armor front. This is where the Thunder is actually different. WG has cut one thirth of the effective power to weight ratio, which is the best value to compare mobility with. This results in the Thunder being considerably slower, in theory at least.
The Thunder gets something else though: more armor. The KV-1S is capable of bouncing a lot of shots, but this happens mostly because of Russian RNG instead thanks to the rounded hull and turret instead of pure armor values. The Thunder gets a thicker turret and a considerably stronger frontal hull, with values reaching 90 mm instead of 75. This doesn’t sound like much but this doesn’t take in account actual values and trollish factor which is even more present while playing the Thunder. Hitpoint wise both have 1000 HP, which is pretty lackluster considering tier 7 is a hostile tier for tier 6’s and tier 6 heavies got a very small HP buff, comparably, but mostly in line with most of tier 6. While I believe that the KV-1S used to be one of the best tier 6 tanks, together with ARL 44, this is probably no longer the case due to huge and unnecessary buffs to other tanks, looking at for example the VK 36 01 which boasts a great gun, great mobility and great armor, as well as much more hitpoints.
We have established that statistics wise the KV-1S and Thunder are both similar and different and there’s basically a trade-off between armor and mobility. Where does the idea come from then that the Thunder is a better version? Isn’t mobility valued higher than armor by good players? Here comes gun depression into play. The KV-1S has a very Russian unlike 8 degrees of gun depression, but the Thunder magically gets 10 degrees, paired with worse elevation, which doesn’t matter as long as it’s not as bad as the Batchats (nice “trade-off” WG). This means the Thunder can use hills as good as American tanks can, while rocking better armor too. This might give the view that the Thunder is pay to win some merit.
Never leave the garage without the correct equipment and loadout!
Before you can roll out in the Thunder, you’ll need equipment. While I believe that you should equip any tank before taking it to the battlefield, this is especially important for the KV-1S and Thunder alike. Some of the base stats are so atrocious that you will want to rip your hair out from frustration. That’s why I would strongly suggest to NOT use the tank without unlocking at least 7/9 equipment slots. I’ll list what equipment I recommend and why. Next to this text you'll find a picture from the garage, for those who just want to copy my recommended load-out. Those who read the whole text will notice that I have recommendations for slots 8 and 9, while not using them myself. That's because I usually feel that the last two aren't necessary, most of my tanks I run with only 7 slots opened anyway.
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Gun Rammer. There’s basically no discussion here. Thunder has 175 mm average pen and more than 200 pen on premium shells, which is more than enough to pen anything you will ever face. If you think 175 pen is bad: a lot of tier 8 tanks have similar or barely better penetration and those work just fine. Thus, equip that rammer to get that reload down.
This is a toss-up if you ask me. Both are viable. I sometimes ram with my Thunder, which means I prefer Protected Modules.
Improved Optics. Another obvious choice. You’re a heavy, have decent armor, bad camo and a gun incapable of sniping. Don’t even dare to equip a camo net!
Enhanced Gun Laying Drive. Supercharge is useless on a tank like the Thunder. You’re always close to your potential victim, and anything that can reduce the atrocious aiming time is a huge plus.
Enhanced armor. I’ll come back tot his when I talk about my experience in practice in the tank, but I believe that the enhanced armor actually makes a difference as the Thunder is incredibely troll. Because the tank has few hitpoints, a 6 percent increase to 1060 doesn’t do much, most guns at the tier do 3x the damage in one shot anyway. Having some extra HP is a viable choice too, though, so you can’t really go wrong with this one in my opinion.
Improved Control. In a heavy tank, getting circled can ruin your game easily, certainly if it happens suddenly. The Thunder has decent mobility and acceleration already but typical heavy traverse. Anything to boost it a bit is a plus.
Vertical Stabilizer. Don’t let people fool you in taking refined gun instead, because you have “bad dispersion”. For nearly every tank, vertical stabilizer is the preferred choice, because it brings down any extra dispersion by 20 percent when moving, including just by moving the turret! This effect is much bigger than refined gun, which usually is only a viable option on tanks with great or non existent bloom but bad gun dispersion, or bush camping TD’s that have all the time to aim.
Toolbox. Enhanced tracks is, while not useless, inferior to toolbox in any way. Don’t let anyone let you convince you of the opposite. Reducing outages of broken modules comes in really handy.
Consumable Delivery System. Having the opportunity to use your consumables more often is definitly more useful for a tank like Thunder, certainly because you won’t gain anything from having a longer Adrenaline (if you use that consumable), because you won’t be able to shoot twice anyway.
This is a toss-up if you ask me. Both are viable. I sometimes ram with my Thunder, which means I prefer Protected Modules.
Improved Optics. Another obvious choice. You’re a heavy, have decent armor, bad camo and a gun incapable of sniping. Don’t even dare to equip a camo net!
Enhanced Gun Laying Drive. Supercharge is useless on a tank like the Thunder. You’re always close to your potential victim, and anything that can reduce the atrocious aiming time is a huge plus.
Enhanced armor. I’ll come back tot his when I talk about my experience in practice in the tank, but I believe that the enhanced armor actually makes a difference as the Thunder is incredibely troll. Because the tank has few hitpoints, a 6 percent increase to 1060 doesn’t do much, most guns at the tier do 3x the damage in one shot anyway. Having some extra HP is a viable choice too, though, so you can’t really go wrong with this one in my opinion.
Improved Control. In a heavy tank, getting circled can ruin your game easily, certainly if it happens suddenly. The Thunder has decent mobility and acceleration already but typical heavy traverse. Anything to boost it a bit is a plus.
Vertical Stabilizer. Don’t let people fool you in taking refined gun instead, because you have “bad dispersion”. For nearly every tank, vertical stabilizer is the preferred choice, because it brings down any extra dispersion by 20 percent when moving, including just by moving the turret! This effect is much bigger than refined gun, which usually is only a viable option on tanks with great or non existent bloom but bad gun dispersion, or bush camping TD’s that have all the time to aim.
Toolbox. Enhanced tracks is, while not useless, inferior to toolbox in any way. Don’t let anyone let you convince you of the opposite. Reducing outages of broken modules comes in really handy.
Consumable Delivery System. Having the opportunity to use your consumables more often is definitly more useful for a tank like Thunder, certainly because you won’t gain anything from having a longer Adrenaline (if you use that consumable), because you won’t be able to shoot twice anyway.
Provisions & consumables
Usually, I wouldn’t say that provision are an actual must (they are pretty expensive for F2P) but the Thunder really needs them. I suggest using the crew enhancing kits (both 10 and 3 percent ones) aswell as the big mobility booster. An alternative for the latter is protective kit, but I honestly never use that one. If you’re not confident, there’s no issue in using it though. A thirth option is to throw away the 3 percent crew enhancement and get both the kit and the booster, but that gets really expensive.
My loadout for the Thunder is adrenaline, small repair kit and multi purpose repair kit. Adrenaline is vital with the long reload once you’re getting pushed on or want to get rid of a dangerous enemy before it can run away. Getting tracked is detrimental in this tank, because the sides are paper. That’s why having double repairs comes in very handy. The multi purpose repair kit can also fix your driver or get rid of a fire quickly.
There are of course alternatives. I would strongly suggest not to get rid of the repair kit though. A cheap loadout could be healing kit and double repair, or using an automatic extinguisher, rendering one of your slots useless if you don’t get set on fire though. Whatever you do: DO NOT go into battle without either the extinguisher or the multi pack: everyone hates teammates that can’t put a fire out. I haven’t talked about the speed boost because I never use it. If you aren’t sure when or why to use it: just don’t even consider it. An average player is better off with repairs or adrenaline anyway.
There are of course alternatives. I would strongly suggest not to get rid of the repair kit though. A cheap loadout could be healing kit and double repair, or using an automatic extinguisher, rendering one of your slots useless if you don’t get set on fire though. Whatever you do: DO NOT go into battle without either the extinguisher or the multi pack: everyone hates teammates that can’t put a fire out. I haven’t talked about the speed boost because I never use it. If you aren’t sure when or why to use it: just don’t even consider it. An average player is better off with repairs or adrenaline anyway.
What I have done in the tank so far and what you could learn from it
The real question is: what actually happens if I take out the Thunder with the recommended equipment and consumables? Well, for anyone who has any experience in the KV-1S: the gun statistics are indeed exactly the same. Which means that it’s derpy but not as bad as the KV-2. Aiming is important though. Alternatively, you can try praying to Stalin but that seems to work better in the KV-2, even Joseph has his favorites! Whatever you do, don’t try to shoot on the move, unless you have no other choice. Your shot will fly off to the moon and Jupiter rather than actually hitting your target, even if you’re close.
Mobility wise, some fun things happen. On hard ground, like roads, the mobility difference isn’t noticable at all, because both tanks have the same top speed and the KV-1S just gets there a tiny bit quicker. The difference becomes apparant though once you’re on semi soft or soft terrain. The Thunder becomes a subpar tank in terms of mobility and the KV-1S actually feels like a sportcar in comparison.
Fortunately there’s the armor to save you! Well, there’s good and bad news. Agains tier V tanks, you’re a proper heavy. While the KV-1S could bounce a lot of shots with some wiggling, the Thunder doesn’t really need that to deflect most shots. Most tier 6’s and all Tier 7 tanks still go through easily though and bouncing them requires some sweet Russian bias. The extra gun depression helps to make the turret stronger and getting shots off is easier than ever. The advantage isn’t that big as some reviewers told you: popping a shot over a ridge isn’t going to work, due to bad gun statistics. Actually aiming is needed, so I would recommend shooting targets that are distracted instead.
Whatever you do if you’re a one shot: never just give up! This is true for any tank, but facehugging the tank you’re facing really works and you’ll bounce a lot of shots that way. It helped me winning some very tight games already. My current stats are 1350 average damage and a WR around 65 percent. This indicates that I got carried a couple of times, but if you can reach this amount of damage you’ll get 50 percent WR or more for sure. Try to reach at least your own hitpool (1000) and then your tier x 2 (1200) before going for even more. If you can do that, you’ll never be a burden for you team. It’s only 3 shots, which shouldnt pose too much of a challenge, teams falling apart in the first minute aside.
My final verdict (also known as TL;DR)
For anyone wondering: the Thunder is certainly worth 5 dollars or whatever currency equivalent. If you want the pass, the Thunder is a great addition to it. If you liked the KV-1S you will like the Thunder as well. I’d even say that the Thunder is a more noob friendly KV-1S. I don’t think it’s pay to win, because the mobility is really subpar on soft ground, which is a huge part of the Blitz maps. The extra gun depression is a weird flex from WG though.
The only reason not to pick it up is that you hate Russian heavies or inaccurate guns in general. Or you might want to stay full F2P, which is fine. Know that the KV-1S is always available for anyone in the tech tree. It’s certainly a type of tank anyone should try at least once.
The only reason not to pick it up is that you hate Russian heavies or inaccurate guns in general. Or you might want to stay full F2P, which is fine. Know that the KV-1S is always available for anyone in the tech tree. It’s certainly a type of tank anyone should try at least once.
Want to know more about the Thunder?
If you have questions about this review or any remarks, feel free to contact me. I like to get constructive comments. This is my view of the tank and if you disagree, that's all fine. Different people like different tactics or load-outs.
Want to have some visuals too? Mastery replays and more can be found on YouTube, provided by a lot of great Blitz Youtubers. Make sure to check out as many as them as you can. I have listed Martin Dogger, Meadsy69, Bushka (all CC's) and some other Blitz youtubers as well, like Fugit, Pantoufle and Droodles. While I hope that my written review has helped you out, seeing some gameplay is a valuable treasure and a good way to improve. For now I don't have aspirations to go on YouTube myself, but who knows, that might change eventually! |
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